Bwrdd Neges Archefol - Archived Messageboard 2011


Dr John Griffiths
Posted by Tomas on 6/4/2011, 9:52 am

Dear all,

I am currently doing some research on the mail coach monument outside Llandovery. Apparently Dr John Griffiths was related to the driver of the coach.

Anybody know of a Dr John Griffiths in Llangadog?


Llangadog 100 years ago
Posted by Daniel Evans on 9/6/2011, 1:33 pm

Viewers of this site may find the postcard above of interest as it is a view of Llangadog taken 100 years ago and is one I personally have not seen before. In the picture can be seen to the right Victoria House which was then the Post Office in Llangadog. The Post Office remained in Victoria House until the mid 1960's when the then postmaster Mr. D.T. Williams retired and the Post Office re-located to Great House when my mother's brother Dewi Jones became the postmaster. Following the death of Dewi the Post Office was run by my cousin Peter and his wife Lorna until their retirement when the post office moved to its present location where it continues to be under the excellent stewardship of Richard and Win Morgan.

Another piece of local history in the photograph is that it also shows the Red Lion which at the date of this photograph was run by my grandfather Morgan Jones who eventually was forced to leave the Red Lion as he apparently was too fond of the drinks sold at the Red Lion so much so that he allegedly drank all the profits!

Capel Libanus Waunclyndaf Llansadwrn
Posted by Christine Moore on 9/6/2011, 1:55 pm
Clean up of the grounds of Capel Libanus- with Keep wales Tidy and Tidy Town
10.30am 5th July 2011

A great chance to see inside the beautiful Chapel
All Welcome


Evan Jones and Margaret Griffith - Llangadock
Posted by Kathy Anderson on 8/11/2010, 9:20 am

These fine folks were my husband's great, great grandparents, born in Llangadock. They had children: William Jones b. 1851, John Jones b. 1853, Mary Ann Jones b. 1855, Elizabeth Jones b. 1857, Jane Jones b. 1860, Margaret Jones b. 1861 and Winifred Jones b. Dec 1862 in Llanwrda. She was his great grandmother. She married Thomas Payne , an Irishman, in New York City just after emigrating. The family was not too happy about the marriage. They had several children born in the US: Evan Griffith Payne, Roy L. Payne, Griffith John Payne, and Winifred Margaret Payne (my husbands grandmother). We have found a 'Remember Me' cup that very faintly says 'Llangadock' - it was being used to measure laundry soap (heaven forbid) and now holds a place of honor in the china cupboard.

Any info??

Re: Evan Jones and Margaret Griffith - Llangadock
Posted by J D R THOMAS on 11/11/2010, 12:40 pm, in reply to "Evan Jones and Margaret Griffith - Llangadock"

The Family is in the 1861 Census at 'Blaendufryn', Llangadock. I have not been able to fllow up on this. However, Blaendufryn is on the same page of the Llangadock 1861 Census as other places in Bethlehem, Llangadock Parish, such as 'Rhydsaint' and 'Llysbrychan' (which 2nd place Sir John Williams's Grandmother, Elizabeth Davies was born in 1777 - died 1850 before marrying Sir John's Grand-father Morgan Williams 1752-1831 in 1795).

Sorry, I can't be for further help, beyond saying that the parents were born in Llangadock, being of ages 34 (Farmer of 105 acres) and 30 in 1861.


Re: Evan Jones and Margaret Griffith - Llangadock
Posted by Damien Davies on 30/6/2011, 1:34 am, in reply to "Re: Evan Jones and Margaret Griffith - Llangadock"

Google maps view of site

Blaen-y-dyffryn was located on the road between Rhydsaint and Brynteg situated on your left-handside (the foundations remain).

It is shown on a map from the year 1887, however it no longer shown on a later map from 1909.

Hope this helps.


Re: Evan Jones and Margaret Griffith - Llangadock
Posted by J D R THOMAS on 11/11/2010, 3:22 pm, in reply to "Evan Jones and Margaret Griffith - Llangadock"

Here I am again, with more information on the family of Evan Jones age 34 in 1861 and Margaret Jones (presumably nee Griffith) age 30 in 1861. By 1871 Census and all Censuses up to 1911, the family was at Clynglas (Glynglas) Llanwrda (at Porthyrhyd). In 1881 Winifred was age 18 (but not in subsequent Censuses). Evan was given as age 73 in 1901, but had died before 1911, while Margaret is ahown as 'Widow' in 1911 Census and 'Living on own means'.

It seems that Winifred may have emigrated after 1881 - so that becomes a lead.


Thomas Roberts
Posted by Carole Dransfield on 10/6/2010, 5:45 pm

My Great great grandfather Thomas Roberts kept the Carpenter's Arms in Queen Street. He is there on the 1888 census and was also a wheelwright. I would like to know if the Carpenter's arms is still there and still an inn? Does anyone have a picture of the inn?


Re: Thomas Roberts
Posted by Lloyd Evans on 16/6/2010, 9:20 am, in reply to "Thomas Roberts "

With reference to the query from Carol Dransfield re the Carpenters Arms, the pub still exists in Queen's Square, Llangadog but is now known as the Goose and Cuckoo. I attach a photo of the Carpenters Arms as it then was, taken if my memory is correct in about 1986.

Lloyd Evans

Re: Thomas Roberts
Posted by Rob Atkins on 12/12/2010, 10:02 pm, in reply to "Thomas Roberts "

Hi there - he's my great-great grandfather too. His son Lewis moved to Abertillery and so on ...

Re: Thomas Roberts
Posted by Carole on 13/12/2010, 12:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Thomas Roberts "

Yes, you must be Ruth and Alf's son. I usually speak to her at Christmas. I hope she and Alf are still well.

Re: Thomas Roberts
Posted by rob on 13/12/2010, 1:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Thomas Roberts "

Oh, of course. It's the Dransfield that put me off the scent! Mam isn't very well, actually. She's had a nasty fall and got very confused so she's in respite care at the moment cause Dad couldn't cope.

As far as these Robertses are concerned, I've got a census return from I think 1841 and Thomas's father is farming 16 acres.

Also found out that Thomas married twice.

Have you found out any more?

Re: Thomas Roberts
Posted by Carole Dransfield on 10/2/2011, 12:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Thomas Roberts "

Sorry to hear about Ruth I did try to ring her and got the answer phone. I wondered why i didn't get a card as usual. Please give her my love.
re Thomas Roberts was the son of Lewis and Mary Roberts. He later married Ann and was a innkeeper and wheelwright in Langadock Camarthanshire in 1861 and they had one son John aged 8. By 1881 he was married to Jane Roberts and still in Llangadock at the inn and with a son Lewis (our great grandfather) and a daughter Mary. By 1891 they where in Abertillery with 2 more daughters Margaret and Sarah. In 1901 Lewis is head of the household aged 28, married to Elizabeth ,with 3 kids, the eldest being Sarah, my grandmother.
Poor Elizabeth died at 50 after having 17 children
My grandmother brought the younger ones up. Lewis was the life and soul of the pub so I hear, played the banjo, I have a picture of him in a black and white minstrel band. My father Lewis John was named after him. I don't know why because my grandmother hated her father!!
Hope this helps

Re: Thomas Roberts
Posted by Rob on 10/2/2011, 3:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Thomas Roberts "

Hello again - Yes, it's been all go up in Preston, unfortunately. The social worker wouldn't let mam go back home after the fall even though she got quite a lot better. In the meantime, dad wasn't able to cope very easily by himself and at the same time he was dreading mam coming back because he'd have had to look after her - or so he thought . . .

Anyway, they've both moved together now into a place called Ravenscroft in Longon near Preston. John is under a lot of pressure but managaing and I get up there when I can.

As for the family, I knew most of that but not about the seventeen children. I'd love to see a copy of the photo of the black and white minstrel band.

One or two questions. I met a gentleman at auntie Phyll's funeral called Lewis Roberts from Ross. I suppose he would have been about seventy. Any idea ho that was.

Also, there was somebody called Lewis John Roberts from Abertillery who went down on HMS Hood in 1941 and he bears a strong resemblance to somebody in a photo I've seen of Lewis our great-grandfather an I've thought members of another branch might have moved from Llangadog to Abertillery at some point. All that's just conjecture and amy be a bit fanciful. What do you think?


Re: Thomas Roberts
Posted by Rob Atkins on 3/7/2011, 6:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Thomas Roberts "

Hi Carol - Just to let you know that Mam and Dad are back in Abertillery now. They've moved to Grosvenor House nursing home just opposite Blaenau Gwent chapel. They are both even more frail and confused than when I last wrote but having said that they are glad to be back home and are having far more visitors than when they were in Preston. The address is Grosvenor House Nursing Home, Victoria Street, Abertillery, NP13 1PG


Lewis/Lord families of Cwrtyplas
Posted by Rowena Lewis on 3/9/2011, 3:46 pm

I'm interested in the families of William Lewis, blacksmith, of Cwrtyplas. His first wife was Sophia Lord, and his second was Martha Grey widow of George Gray of the Carpenters Arms. William and Martha emigrated to Kansas in 1882. I'm also interested in David & Florentia Lewis of the Carpenters Arms and Richard Pulker, gamekeeper.
Any information gratefully received.

Re: Lewis/Lord families of Cwrtyplas
Posted by Damien Davies on 4/9/2011, 10:29 pm, in reply to "Lewis/Lord families of Cwrtyplas"

This may be of iterest to you:

Re: Lewis/Lord families of Cwrtyplas
Posted by Rowena Lewis on 5/9/2011, 11:52 am, in reply to "Re: Lewis/Lord families of Cwrtyplas"

Many thanks - I think I saw this at the time and replied to Pauline. This is the family I'm researching.



Inns & Public Houses
Posted by Damien Davies on 4/9/2011, 10:41 pm

Hi All,

I have the a list of Public Houses & Inns for the years 1830 & 1844:

•Bell; David Williams
•Black Lion; John Richards
•Black Ox; Thomas Lewis
•Butchers' Arms; David Lewis
•Castle; Sarah Jones
•King's Head; William Williams
•Plough; Evan Jones
•Red Lion; John Roderick
•Royal Oak; Rees Williams
•Sextons' Arms; Rebecca Lewis
•Square & Compasses; Jno Rowland
•Three Horse Shoes; Philip Thomas
•White Bear; Benjamin Williams
•White Hart; William Morgan
•White Lion; Henry Jones

•Bear, Benjamin Williams
•Black Lion, David Phillips
•Butchers' Arms, Florentia Lewis
•Castle, David Jones
•Carpenters' Arms, David Lewis
•Glansevin Arms, Catherine Evans
•Golden Lion, David Lewis
•King's Head, William Williams
•Plough, Thomas Thomas
•Red Lion, John Roderick
•Rose & Crown, James Vinson
•Royal Oak, William Williams
•Sexton's Arms, Rebecca Lewis
•White Bear, Benjamin Williams
•White Hart, William Beynon

I was wondering if anyone would know of the where abouts of these PH & Inns?
(obviously those still Licensed I have mannaged to find)

Many Thanks

Re: Inns & Public Houses
Posted by Lloyd Evans on 5/9/2011, 8:12 pm, in reply to "Inns & Public Houses"

With reference to the public houses and inns of Llangadog. Some years ago with the help of Dennis Edwards (Den y Crudd)I attempted to identify the location of some of the premises mentioned by Damien Davies. We identified the following defunct premises but failed to identify others.

Bear Inn - now a private house called 'Anglo House' on the Llandovery road.

Kings Head - Private house in Llandovery road

Rose and Crown - private house next door to the Black Lion on Llandovery road.

White Hart - private house next door to the Rose and Crown

Nag's Head - directly opposite Rose and Crown

Royal Oak - private house on the Brynamman Road now known as Oak House

White Hart - now a private house called Maes-y-Gof off Queen's Square

Glansevin Arms - now a private house called Nyddfa in Church House

Golden Lion - private house in Church Street still called Golden Lion.

Square and Compass - now a private house on the A40 opposite the turn off for Llangadog.

Towy Bridge - now demolished, was situated on the left hand side prior to the village end of the Towy bridge.

Railway Hotel - now a private house by Thomas Bros depot.

Farmer's Arms - now a private house known as Farmers on the far side of Llangadog common on the Brynamman Road

To date I have no knowledge of the location of the following :-

Butchers Arms
Sextons Arms
White Bear
Lamb Inn

As regards the Three Horse Shoes pub, I believe that this may refer to the Three Horse Shoes that stood on the road to Brynamman and just below this pub was I believe another pub called the Coopers. This location was years ago in the parish of Llangadog and that's why the pubs are listed for Llangadog.

I hope this is helpful and interesting to others who hopefully may have further information

Iechyd Da!

Lloyd Evans

Re: Inns & Public Houses
Posted by J.D.R. Thomas on 6/9/2011, 8:18 pm, in reply to "Inns & Public Houses"

Re 'Three Horse Shoes' - it is on the junction on A 4069 with roads off to Capel Gwynfe and to Llanddeusant. It is now For Sale at a high price. Alongside is the 'Pound' for stray sheep (and Court Leets used to be held at the Inn - I served on a Jury there in ~1947 to decide on the sale disposal of an unclaimed sheep). In the 1930s and 1940s the Three Horse Shoes had Christopher Williams (dependent on crutches) as Landlord. Chris Bach as he was known was also a huxter owning a van who used to collect butter and eggs, etc. for onward sale at Brynaman and beyond (the van was so heavily loaded that the front pointed upwards by the heavily loaded rear). Christopher also kept a shop in the toll house as gerneral stoes (shop) on the Llanddeusant side of the A 4069.

Re the nearby Coopers Arms, I have a recollection of there being a tailor and saddler living there. But in the 1901 Census MORGAN (PELAGUS) WILLIAMS, age 38 was 'Head' of this Public House along with his wife Mary and 2 newborn sons DAVID TOM WILLIAMS age 1 and newborn GWILYM GEORGE WILLIAMS 1900-1963 (later known as 'AP PELAGUS' and correspondent to the CARMARTHEN JOURNAL of his column 'GWYNFE a'r CYLCH'. MORGAN (Pelagus WILLIAMS was a 1st Cousin to Sir John Williams Bt. GCVO Founder President of the National Library of Wales, and earlier accoucheur physician to H.M. Queen Mary (formerly Duchess of York). By 1911 MORGAN (Pelagus) WILLIAMS lived at 'Spain' Cottage - about half a mile towards Brynaman on the A 4069 road.

By the late 1950s and 1960s Gwynfe Post Office came to be located across the road from the Three Horse Shoes - it having previously been located across the road from Bryncapel and next to ALL SAINTS CHURCH Gwynfe.


Re: Inns & Public Houses
Posted by Damien on 9/9/2011, 11:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Inns & Public Houses"

Thank you both for the information provided, This will be of great help in my research.

I don't suppose either of you have any old photos showing the PH & Inns?

many thanks

Re: Inns & Public Houses
Posted by Lloyd Evans on 10/9/2011, 5:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Inns & Public Houses"

Furter to Damien's latest posting, a search of the historical pictures page reveals some photographic evidence. The third photo in shows the Plough PH taken I think in the early 1960's. Further down is the photo of Great House I referred to in an earlier posting clearly showing the 'Temperance Hotel' sign. In the photo entitled 'High Street Towards Queen Square',the Rose and Crown PH can be seen at the bottom of the High Street with the White Hart next to it.

Scrolling back in the 'messages' to 19/7/2007 and I placed a photo of the Square and Compass which can be seen as the second property on the left in the photo.I also placed a photo of the Carpenters Arms as it the was in messages on 16/06/2010. I think the photo was taken in the 1980's

Also in the historical photos page can be found a photo of the Railway Hotel.

Hope this information will assist you.

Lloyd Evans

Re: Inns & Public Houses
Posted by Lloyd Evans on 7/9/2011, 1:26 pm, in reply to "Inns & Public Houses"

Further to my previous posting, I have revisited my research into the inns and pubs of Llangadog and found some more information. According to The Universal British Directory of Trade, Commerce and Manufacturing of 1880, Great House, Llangadock is listed as an inn and was run by a Morgan & Mary Jones. I was born and bred in Great House but cannot recall any references made to it being an inn although I do possess an old photograph clearly showing Great House taken I believe in the 1930's with a sign displayed on the house clearly showing that it is a 'Temperance Hotel'

A property of great antiquity is Tafarn Y Wawr which is now a house on the old Llangadog to Trecastle road off the main Brynamman Road and is clearly marked as an inn on several 18th century maps.

The pubs of Llangadog feature prominently in evidence given to the infamous Commission of Inquiry Into The State of Education in Wales 1847 better known as Brad Y Llyfrau Gleision (Treason of the Blue Books)where a Mr. Benjamin Roberts of Glan Tywi and a Mr. Robert Roberts a shopkeeper, both of Llangadog stated to the Commissioners :-

"I consider the two greatest mischiefs of the country to be the number of public houses and the general lax morality of the young men and women, though I attribute this latter evil to the former one as its cause. The male farm servants sleep in the out-buildings, and keep what hours they please;the women ask leave to go out in the evening, and the men meet them at the public houses of which there are 14 in the town here (among a population of 736) and 8 between here and Llandeilo; in this way much immorality takes place"

Although Llangadog has always been well blessed for public houses, very little has been written about the quality of the drink served in them. However, in his famous book 'Wild Wales'published in 1862, the author George Borrow describes his visit to a pub in Llangadog but does not mention its name. He does however mention the quality of the beer stating:-
"...we soon got into discourse about religion, but did not exactly agree, for she was a bitter Methodist, as bitter as her beer, only half of which I could get down".

There are many stories to be told about the public houses in Llangadog in living memory and these may have to wait for a future date as a mark of respect for people still alive and the libel laws!

Lloyd Evans


Fomer Postmaster
Posted by Brenda Geuther on 22/9/2011, 10:23 am

Hi my name is Brenda Geuther i was formaly married to christopher Howard his parents were fred and june howard and i was lead to be leave that it was freds father who was once the post master in the bethlehem post office i would be greatful if this could be verified as my grandson is doing a project in school on his family history. i am unable to remember freds fathers name but i think it may of had a Z in it.
Hopeing you can help with this.
Yours sincerely
Mrs Brenda Geuther.

Family History - William Edwards born 1756
Posted by Derek Edwards on 7/10/2011, 7:34 pm

I want to find out more and verify some facts about my ggg grandfather William Edwards from Llangadog, born I believe in 1756, I believe he married Catherine Powell 19.11.1776.I think he was a farmer, he was still alive in 1841 aged 85. They had a son Cadwgan, born 1792, who also had a son Cadwgan born 1842.


Heather Davies. Mumbles
Posted by Mair Jones on 24/11/2011, 7:27 pm

Would like to get in touch with Heather Davies.I saw an old posting dated 4.8.06 and the family details are very like the names and dates of my 3rd great ancestors.Would love more information.


Rhiwddu ancestors
Posted by Mair Jones on 20/11/2011, 7:12 pm

I am busy tracing my family tree and on my paternal side, I know the Williams family living in Rhiwddu from the early 1800s are my great great great ancestors.
If anyone can give me information about the family I would be really happy.I have gathered masses of really useful information from census records and also visiting the family graves at Jerusalem chapel in Gwynfe, but I would still like to know more.

Re: Rhiwddu ancestors
Posted by J D R Thomas on 23/11/2011, 8:14 pm, in reply to "Rhiwddu ancestors"

I take it that you're aware of the Williams family at Rhiwddu in Census 1841 and Census 1851. And although you've checked graves at Jerusalem (did you find Rhiwddu Graves?) you might also check graves at All Saints Church Gwynfe and also Bishop's Transcripts re Llangadock Church (St. Cadog).

However, I'm not aware of the genealogy of this particular family (BUT it was interesting to discover that Nantyrhyddil Isaf and Uchaf were occupied in the 1851 Census. I knew the place in the 1930s with stone folds as a place for dipping sheep in August - Anti Scab and at other times.)

Re: Rhiwddu ancestors
Posted by Mair Jones on 24/11/2011, 7:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Rhiwddu ancestors"

Diolch am y gwybodaeth.
Yes I did visit Jerusalem and the graves of my 3rd great grand uncles and aunts.From viewing the headstones I was able to know the dates of death of Evan Williams and his family.However no trace of his father Thomas Williams who would be my 3rd great grandfather.But as you say-it would be a good idea to visit the church in Gwynfe as it may be they were church people rather than chapel. Do you know anything of the Coopers (which used to be the Coopers Arms I believe)near the Three Horse shoes pub,now a private dwelling? My aunty Gwen used to live there and I remember visiting her there with my mamgu to whom she was related.If I remember correctly aunty Gwen's husband was the forester.
Edrych ymlaen i glywed wrthoch chi.

Re: Rhiwddu ancestors
Posted by J D R THOMAS on 25/11/2011, 8:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Rhiwddu ancestors"

Re Coopers Arms,
In Census 1901 there was Morgan Williams age 38 (a 1st Cousin Once Removed to Sir JOHN WILLIAMS - Founder President of the National Library of Wales) as Head with family and a Julia G. Howells as Servant Domestic; would she have been a Gwen?

IN 1911 the Inn Keeper was Margaret Morgan b 1877 (Widow) and a Son plus her sister Lizzie Jones b. 1887 plus others.

I recall my late farther saying there was a Saddler plying his Craft at Coopers; the I recall a POST Van Driver living the in about the 1950s (Benny Coopers).

I suggested the Church searches to you as many Congregationalists Baptised and Buried in the Churches.

It was Davies family in Rhiwddu from about 1881 or 1891 (previously at Nant y moch)
That's all.


Re: Rhiwddu ancestors
Posted by J D R Thomas on 26/11/2011, 7:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Rhiwddu ancestors"

Following up your Auntie Gwen, and querying whether she would be the Julia G. Howells at Coopers Arms in 1901 Census at age 13. Could she be the Julia Gwynifred Howells who was at age 3 at Pantycefn, Gwynfe in 1891 Census. If you confirm this, then maybe I have more news for you!

Dyna ni eto.

Re: Rhiwddu ancestors
Posted by Mair Jones on 27/11/2011, 10:16 am, in reply to "Re: Rhiwddu ancestors"

I seem to recall visiting Aunty Gwen around the mid 60s.Possibly 1965 or a bit earlier.She seemed to be in her 70s then so could well be the lady you refer to.The Coopers was a private dwelling by that time.I know Mamgu used to spend a lot of time with aunty Gwen and I recall walking from the cottage up a track to the forest on the brow of the hill.Mamgu was born in the 1880s so I'm sure there is some link with Gwen who would however be on my Tadcu's(Williams) side.They probably got to know one another after Mamgu married into the Williams family.
Thank you so much for your interest and for taking the time to investigate.


Llangadog Ecology
Posted by Hope Lines on 2/12/2011, 7:04 am

Hello, my name is Hope Lines and I am currently studying Biomedical Science at Reading University.
For one of my modules we were asked to write about the ecology of Llangadog and what would need to be carried out if a housing development was to go ahead.
I was wondering if there is any rare/endangered species of mammals/insects/birds/plants etc. in Llangadog that would need protecting? And if there are any environmental laws protecting Llangadog as it is an area of natural beauty? Thank you for any feedback you can give me.

Yours Sincerely
Hope Lines

Re: Llangadog Ecology
Posted by J D R Thomas on 4/12/2011, 7:13 pm, in reply to "Llangadog Ecology"

Hi. Look out for the 'insect-eating' plant near the A 4069 as it crosses the river Clydach at the foot of the Black Mountain. This used to be also found occasionally on peaty-type damp meadows.